In larvae, the dorsal seta sequentially in line lateral to seta 2 on abdominal segment I, variable in position on segment II but determinable based on branching, development and relative position in comparison with other segments, even with or lateral to seta 4 where it is associated with seta 5 (see seta 3-I-VII). In pupae, a mesodorsal seta either standing alone or variously associated either with seta 1-II and seta 2-II or seta 4-II and seta 5-II; sometimes exhibiting sufficient lack of serial resemblance in form and position to be difficult to name; usually determinable by process of elimination (see seta 3-II-VII).